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[Bablefish]

Heres one I hope isn't too tough for you.

As you know the Original Playstation had no signature game, no one mascot to call it's very own. But what game is credited to making the original Playstation to what it became. In other words what was it's real first hit title.

[triverse]

I think I know this one but I am going to give others a chance to answer.  I know it wasn't Polygon Man (Sony's sad attempt at a mascot and responsible for over $200K worth of letterhead being thrown out when he was dumped).

[Addicted to Chaos]

I want to say Crash Bandicoot because I don't know what I'm talking about, but if it's a trick question then my money is on Jumping Flash! For some reason I think it has to be a platformer. If it's not a platformer then I think it's really obvious.

[atik]

Hmmmm another good question. The two game's that I'm thinking about don't have any mascot's but I remember them being pretty popular. I'm going to guess at either Ridge Racer or Tekken as being the Playstation's first hit title.

[meppi]

It's probably Final Fantasy 7, but if I can be biased for a moment I'll say WipEout instead. 

[Addicted to Chaos]

I agree with meppi too if it's not a mascot, because that's the one I meant as the obvious one in my last post. But I can only pick one, so I'm still sticking with Jumping Fash!

Bandicoot, and especially FF7, came too late, but FF7 definatly secured the win, 100%.

[triverse]

I believe Tekken was the first million selling title on PSOne though I am not sure if that is what Bablefish is asking about.

[Bablefish]

Answer according to many experts the first real hit on the original Playstation was in fact FF7.

[Addicted to Chaos]

How did Sony acquire Suare, was it really in fact Sony using money? Or did they choose the PSX because of the PS1 bettter/cleaner FMV, and they were not aware back then of Saturn being able to do better FMV through sofware (is that possible, not to know, or just lazyness?), or better/just as good effects through more development. One things for sure, better Ram dies equal better loading times, or the hiding of loading times, and they did not want the loading screen from the start. But then again, the PSX limited RAM is solved by dithering, but wait, it was mostly flat shaded polygons (and isier to be compressed) and just flat/static backgrounds. Though, Saturn running lighting could of added to more RAM, but then again, Scenario 2+3 of Shining Force 3 reall had very detailed character models and backgrounds with Zero loading, like every time with barley any noticeable loading at all. And the Saturn can do way better static background images... So it makes me wonder...?

My money is on the fact that they were gonna spend alot of money anyways, might as well take whatever savings possible. But did Sony drop any money on them still?

This is my question, because I don't know.

[triverse]

From what I remember of the fiasco that was known as Square coming to PSOne, it really boiled down to one thing in the end.  Both Saturn and PSOne were on a level playing field as far as storage space (both used CD-Rom), RAM was close (apparently not as big an issue as the reason I have read that made the decision for Square anyhow) and the installed bases weren't that far apart (Sony was in the lead but Sega was still a contender around this time, they just needed that "killer app" to get momentum on their side). 

The reason I have read over and over for Sony being the choice of Sqaure boiled down to the ease of programming the PSOne, it was just simply easier and cheaper for companies to get results on the PSOne.  This is something that many many independent developers list as their main deciding factor for choosing PSOne over Saturn back in the day. 

Now if Sony paid Square to persuade them or not has never been revealed, though I am sure the licensing fees were reduced for them as an incentive, nothing has come about that either.

[Addicted to Chaos]

Thanks for that well answered reply. Sega should of tried to secure themselfs a port, even if they had to do it themself, but of course they could/would of paid anybody else to do it. Like they did with Wipeout 1&2.

I can't believe Sega didn't even bring Grandia over after thee massive success of FF7 and PRG's, to at least compete with FF7 and it's eye candy (since that what most gamers were looking at on top of the gameplay, presentation and story). And Grandia at the moment was on par with FF7 graphically despite it running in real time. The port of the PSx Grandia, later in 1999 (I think), didn't or couldn't match the original Saturn version is numerous ways.

Man, I so wish Sony would of keep Bernie Stolar, and even when he left Sony, I really wish Sega didn't hire him.

Anyways, can anyone name another 3D game on the Saturn and PSX where the Saturn version was definately graphically superior?

[meppi]

Yeah, the whole Bernie Stolar thing shouldn't have happened in the first place.
One of the worst Sega decisions ever.

No 2D games, no RPGs? WTH! Not to mention the brilliant "Saturn is not our future" line which did more harm in the west than the abysmal launch idea.
What a complete idiot.

I wouldn't be too surprised that Grandia staying in Japan was due to his no RPG policy as well. :-/

[triverse]

I thought the reason that Grandia didn't come over was the same reason they didn't bring over Volume 2 and 3 of Shining Force 3, just not enough time to recoup their investment by the time the decisions could have been made. I am surprised that the US even got Shining the Holy Ark (I love that game along with Guardian Heroes, it defined the Saturn for me, and that divorce thing didn't hurt as far as making it a system I won't forget).

[meppi]

I don't think Sega was worried too much about recuperating their investments at that time, compared to pleasing their disappointed fans who wished the Saturn had a longer shelf life.

Remember how they gave Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Dragon Force, Deep Fear and such a limited 5000 copy run, at least in Europe, even though it would not being them in enough money to pay for bringing them over?
One of the many reasons why I became a huge Sega fan.

Oh, forgot to answer the 3D question.

Thinderforce 5, Quake, Exhumed, Duke Nukem 3D, to name a few.

[Addicted to Chaos]

I had Thunderforce 5 in mind, but the rest would do and are a nice touch.

Man you guys reply fast, 3 times I had to modify my replies.

Anyways, Grandia had by far the most text to translate compared to Panzar Dragon and Shining Force 3. The townspeople alone had alot of dialog on top on changeing what they say at least 3 times in a row, if not more. And they change what they say again after a major event. Lote of words in that game.

I Thought the main reason for no Grandia and a bunch of canceled games was because Bernie Stolar and Sega wanted all their energies and resources concentrated in the Dreamcast only. Stolar never cared about saving the Saturn from the start, and wanted to start fresh/new, that why we never got those games plus the canceled ones like VF3 and Shenmue (on top of who know what else, but lots got canned), which definately turned a couple of heads, combined with more imports which Sega had a huge amount of AA titles. If anything, at least Saturn should of beat the N64 with it's great, large, overall library alone from Japan only.

Remember, sofware developer hated the expensive cartriges VS the much cheaper and easier to mass produce CDs too.

[triverse]

Just in case you are in the US, Exhumed is Powerslave here, a great underrated game that most said couldn't be done on Saturn.

I agree with meppi about Thunder Force 5, I had it one PSOne from day one, had a friend that got it on Saturn through import and immediately sold my PSOne copy out of disgust.

I didn't know that Quake 1 made it to PSOne, I know Quake II made it though.  Duke Nukem was just plain closer to the computer version and still better than the PSOne version.

We didn't get Deep Fear in the US, I don't think anyhow.  I know the others that meppi listed were limited print runs but not as low as 5K, more like 20K or so (which was still extremely low).  Again, that is for the US (meppi is across the pond for those that don't know, or is it, I am across the pond?  Considering the visitors we get here).

Hmm, I wonder if Bernie Stolar had not been hired if Sega would have made their last stand with the Saturn?  I mean, if they had bet the farm on that system, come in with a reboot of sorts for their processes of releasing games, hyped Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III Part 1 (and released the other two parts) among other titles that they might have been able to turn things around (I honestly think they missed an opportunity with the cartridge slot and the things they could do with that as far as expansion-look at Nintendo and their FX chip and the myriad of other chips that were put in SNES and even NES games).

[meppi]

Hmm, I'm starting to doubt if Quake 1 made it to the PSone now.
My memory certainly isn't what it used to be, so I could be thinking of Quake 2, although I seem to recall a version of Quake 1 hitting after Quake 2. Perhaps I'm confusing it with something else...

On the other hand, instead of 3D games that looked or ran better on the Sega Saturn.

Which 2D game looked better (much higher level of detail and lots more sprites) on the Sega Saturn but ran much smoother on the PSone, and what other somewhat related 2D game not only looked better on the PSone but also ran quite a bit better (less slowdown) than on the Sega Saturn?

[triverse]

Mega Man X7!

[Addicted to Chaos]

I'm pretty sure MMX4 was the last one for the  Saturn. So I'll say MM8, and the second game is definately Castlevanis SotN.

EDIT - It can't be MM8? It was just a stab in the dark. It's probably a shooter... Maybe?

EDIT2 - haven't played it, but let's say Salamander 2 for the Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus, as a guess.

[triverse]

Where did I get MMX7!?! I agree, it had to be X4 (I remember Gamefan pointing out the utter chaos that this represented, a PSOne game doing better 2D than the Saturn!?!).  I know it was a Mega Man X game though.

[Addicted to Chaos]

Really? A mess on the Playstation version?

[triverse]

I remember Gamefan talking about a Mega Man game for PSOne and Saturn, probably 8, that ran better on the PSOne than it did on the Saturn (which was squished in from the sides for some reason so everything was "off").

[meppi]

That was Megaman X3 since it was basically a port of the SNES game. Not a very good one either.

But no, those aren't the games I was talking about.

They are both shooters though, that much is correct.
One of them came out in the west, the other did now.

[Bablefish]

I am amazed no one here has even talked about the scandal that Mega Man 8 was involved in. I got the entire story from a friend who worked at Funcoland at the time. It seemed some pirated copies, got in to the distribution system for the legit game. Which if I recall right even included the comic book, that was in the legit copies. Strange thing about this I still remembered some saying the pirated copies were a much better game.

[Bablefish]

But getting back to the trivia...

During the 8 bit era some really strange accessories hit the stores, some of which still makes me wonder why did they ever come out in the first place. In fact the strangest at least to me was this little robot, which followed the action on the screen. Name the game system that used it and the name of the robot, bonus question name the only 2 games that ever came out that used the robot?

[meppi]

R.O.B. NES Robotic Operating Buddy

Stackup and Gyromite.  

[Bablefish]

correct

[meppi]

Which 2D game looked better (much higher level of detail and lots more sprites) on the Sega Saturn but ran much smoother on the PSone, and what other somewhat related 2D game not only looked better on the PSone but also ran quite a bit better (less slowdown) than on the Sega Saturn?

Well, I think it's about time I answer this myself.

The first one is In The Hunt.
The Saturn version was ported and programmed by SIMS which did a great job of keeping all the detail in there, but it came at a huge cost when you look at the framerate.
The PSone version was programmed by XING under the supervision of IREM.
XING being known for their quality Arcade Gear ports for Taito as well as Capcom.
The PSone version runs at a much more stable framerate than the Saturn game, but this comes at a cost.
There's a huge amount of detail missing, not only from the explosions and debris that comes with it, but also lots of background detail that has been cut from the game as the PSone couldn't handle everything either.

The second game is a lot more interesting though.

Dodonpachi.
The Saturn version is handled by Cave, and they did a great job.
But compared to the PSone port that SPS did, it falls a bit short.
The details on the explosions as well as the shiny bonus stars that appear in the game is a lot lower in the Saturn version.
Not only this, but the game actually has less slowdown on the PSone, which reproduces the arcade games slowdown somewhat, BUT this can be turned off in the options so that you can play the game more or less slowdown free, which isn't the case with the Saturn game.

This is probably the biggest eye opener as to the 2D power of the PSone when in the correct hands.
Although the shortcomings of the Saturn version have to do lot with the way the port was handles to be honest.

[Addicted to Chaos]

Since I'm not to familiar with Shmups games, I had to do some research and it lead me to a page on Racket Boy's website were he had a list of which system had the superior version in the Shmups catagory. Unforunately, They had both In the Hunt DonPachi as being better on the Playstation, so good thing I didn't continue my research.

I really hate when people get their facts wrong, because I really hate misleading people myself too. That's why I try very hard to not talk definitively when I'm not sure. I also get upset when I can't explain something perfect, just because I don't want people to get the wrong idea.

Anyways, meppi, do you think the Playstation was better than the Saturn at doing 3D too?

[Bablefish]

With Frank Thomas retiring from baseball yesterday, I thought of a really good question name the only game to ever appear on any of the consoles that had Frank Thomas' name upon it.