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[Dante_Ali]

I need all the Next Generation issues except for the ones listed below:

- Next Generation 8
- Next Generation 9
- Next Generation 20
- Next Generation 31
- Next Generation 33
- Next Generation 51

I previously sent a PM to Triverse and explained to him my motives for wanting to get my hands on as many scans of Next Generation as possible.

To compensate (I know I'm asking for a lot here), here are issues 1-40 and more from Edge Magazine:

***Link Removed by Admins*** 6/23/2010***

Be sure to get 'em while you can. I'm sure it hasn't gone by unnoticed that Retromags got a C&D recently and had to pull all its content - they're coming down hard on nearly every grey area on the Internet at the moment.

[TheRedEye]

And just for the record (as I told Dante before) I have quite a few doubles that I'd happily send to a reputable scanner to help this project along.

[Nreive]

I would love to see some Next Generation issues appear as I'm keen to read through these.  Neil West was the editor-in-chief for most of the first run (he was editor of MEGA, which I am scanning at the moment - one of my fave mags).

Be sure to get 'em while you can. I'm sure it hasn't gone by unnoticed that Retromags got a C&D recently and had to pull all its content - they're coming down hard on nearly every grey area on the Internet at the moment.

As far as I can tell, this "situation" occurred after a routine audit was carried out by Retromag's website hosting provider, rather than part of a world-wide clamp down on "grey area" websites.

[Dante_Ali]

I would love to see some Next Generation issues appear as I'm keen to read through these.  Neil West was the editor-in-chief for most of the first run (he was editor of MEGA, which I am scanning at the moment - one of my fave mags).

Be sure to get 'em while you can. I'm sure it hasn't gone by unnoticed that Retromags got a C&D recently and had to pull all its content - they're coming down hard on nearly every grey area on the Internet at the moment.

As far as I can tell, this "situation" occurred after a routine audit was carried out by Retromag's website hosting provider, rather than part of a world-wide clamp down on "grey area" websites.

Well, over the past few weeks I have seen the shutdown of Mininova (no longer providing torrents of any sort other than 'commercial'/authorized ones), Newzleech, and tons of other examples. Now, granted, these provide torrents and NZBs ranging from commercial games to commercial films - quite a bit different from videogame magazines you would say. But they are copyrighted IP all the same - and the EUCD or DMCA doesn't really discriminate between any kind of 'lesser' offense. So correct, taken as an isolated case, this Retromags Cease and Desist was just part of a routine audit. Taken as a whole, though, it's hard to deny there's a world-wide clamp down going on - why else would Australia be rolling out a China-style firewall system, and other Commonwealth Countries following suit if it were not for IP copyright enforcement?

But I digress - it's nice to see that TheRedEye is active on these forums as well - I posted under a different pseudonym on the Lost Levels forums - perhaps if he can send those magazines to some local scanner in the USA, we could be getting those issues scanned sooner rather than later - and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than shipping them to where I live, that's for sure

[Nreive]

I would love to see some Next Generation issues appear as I'm keen to read through these.  Neil West was the editor-in-chief for most of the first run (he was editor of MEGA, which I am scanning at the moment - one of my fave mags).

Be sure to get 'em while you can. I'm sure it hasn't gone by unnoticed that Retromags got a C&D recently and had to pull all its content - they're coming down hard on nearly every grey area on the Internet at the moment.

As far as I can tell, this "situation" occurred after a routine audit was carried out by Retromag's website hosting provider, rather than part of a world-wide clamp down on "grey area" websites.

Well, over the past few weeks I have seen the shutdown of Mininova (no longer providing torrents of any sort other than 'commercial'/authorized ones), Newzleech, and tons of other examples. Now, granted, these provide torrents and NZBs ranging from commercial games to commercial films - quite a bit different from videogame magazines you would say. But they are copyrighted IP all the same - and the EUCD or DMCA doesn't really discriminate between any kind of 'lesser' offense. So correct, taken as an isolated case, this Retromags Cease and Desist was just part of a routine audit. Taken as a whole, though, it's hard to deny there's a world-wide clamp down going on - why else would Australia be rolling out a China-style firewall system, and other Commonwealth Countries following suit if it were not for IP copyright enforcement?

Yep, can't deny that there is a clamp down on torrent sites and similar websites since The Pirate Bay was clamped down.  As you said, a lot of the sites being targeted offer links to copied films, music, tv shows, etc. that are just out or are still available for sale.  The entertainment industry will always try and clamp down on this.  Where as an openly free website focusing on out of print magazine preservation will not be in the eyes of its respective industry so much. 

[triverse]

All I can really say to this whole topic is, discussion of torrents in this situation is cool, please anyone reading this, don't provide links to any sites or to your personal torrents or request invites or anything like that-those types of things will be removed by a moderator immediately.  So far, everyone is cool so don't worry.

On topic though, steps are being taken to protect OoPA from similar takedowns by either a hosting company or the entertainment industry as a whole.

[s1500]

There was recently a torrent link posted to atariage for all the Atari Force comics. Good seeding & positive vibes ensued.

[meppi]

There was recently a torrent link posted to atariage for all the Atari Force comics. Good seeding & positive vibes ensued.

Well those aren't the kinds of things we are looking for here. Torrent links and such that is, not the good vibes.

[jmdeluxe]

Next Generation was my favorite magazine ever.  The way they covered the video game industry at the time was so fresh and it still holds up.

[s1500]

There was recently a torrent link posted to atariage for all the Atari Force comics. Good seeding & positive vibes ensued.

Well those aren't the kinds of things we are looking for here. Torrent links and such that is, not the good vibes.

I'm curious. Why? Not all torrents are seeding TV shows & movies. Torrents also seed linux distributions. Those are 100% legal. Atariage had no problem linking to an off-site torrent file for Atari comics. No excessive hoops to jump through to get the mags you want.

[triverse]

I'm curious. Why? Not all torrents are seeding TV shows & movies. Torrents also seed linux distributions. Those are 100% legal. Atariage had no problem linking to an off-site torrent file for Atari comics. No excessive hoops to jump through to get the mags you want.

Good question.  First of all, we are not Atari Age.  The stance we have on torrents has come from conversations with various publishers/copyright holders and trying to work with them on releasing their magazines.  There have been many that voiced opinions on various things and almost universally a concern over torrents was voiced.  Now, OoPA nor Retromags are in the right on releasing magazines.  Keeping that in mind, and having contacted many of the owners, we have decided to err on the side of caution and show some respect.  Unfortunately for members that want torrents, they will not be used, posted or shared in any way here on OoPA.  If that is what you want, then this site is definitely not for you.

We are not disputing that 100% legal torrents exist.  We are simply taking a stand that torrents of magazines will not be tolerated here at OoPA, plain and simple.  

[s1500]

Well, without telling me what the stance taken by the publishers about torrents, I'm still left in the dark on what is so bad about torrents. Torrents are just a medium to distribute the data. I fail to see how it is any different than a Rapidshare link that will eventually break for a # of reasons.

It's unfortunate that atariage, IMO did a better job of distributing a magazine set better without all the member/donation,etc  hoops to jump through.

I think it might be time for me to find a new hobby. Sites about classic video game magazines that shies away from getting the magazines out there? Then they are just over-modded forums.

[meppi]

Well, disclosing what the people who we are in contact with said about this particular topic, or others for that matter, wouldn't only be unprofessional but it would be a serious insult and a slap in the face to them as well.
So you won't be seeing that unless they are willing to address those points personally and publicly.

You can ask Phillyman if he wants to use torrents or not, and I believe he would make the same choice.
I've actually been talking to him a week or so ago about some of these points, without going into details.

Nice jabs toward us there btw. Too bad they don't mean much seeing where they are coming from.
It's not like this is the first time you or the company you keep criticizes us for a variety of reason, and I would be very surprised if it was the last.
If you're trying to stir the pot again, you've come to the wrong place, plain and simple.

IWe are clearly not the site you want us to be and that's too bad....for you, but we don't have any intentions of changing who we are and how we do things, certainly not on that kind of agenda.
We believe that we are following the correct path in treating the releases as well as the people who originally made the magazines with the utmost respect. And in such a way that the focus is on the content and the magazines itself and not the scanners/scan editors/etc.
We are only a vessel to achieve a certain goal, nothing more.
No one is better than anyone else on this board, no matter how much they scan or "leach". The only reason we have 3 admins here is to keep things that don't belong here away as well as keep the site true to the ideas and principles we build it around.
Every single contributor here knows he or she isn't doing this to get a number attached to his or her name so that people can see what kind of internet superstar he or she is.
We all do this for the purpose of truly preserving classic video game magazines and don't use that sentence only as a slogan because it sounds good to the outside world or to make ourselves feel important.

If we actually wanted to we could upload around 140-160 of our own personal scans by the end of next week.
But like I said, it's not about numbers.
Three of us aren't happy with the majority of the scans we did in the past so we are going back and starting from scratch.
So we can present them in a way that is hopefully worthy of original works, and in a way in which we hope will do the people who put them together all those years ago proud.
I could go into more detail on this subject but that would only be used as fuel by certain people to get a flamewar started and that won't do anyone any good.

[triverse]

Well said meppi.  I agree 100% with what you said.

Before I get on topic, I have an off topic comment or two to make.  While at Retromags, meppi and me instituted many rules (with FULL support of Phillyman, I might add) that were put in place to protect RM and take it out of the shadows and attempt to move it into a position of some respect and something worthy of being the #1 magazine preservation site on the web.  After over a year of being there and working to change the image that RM had, we were able to work with many dignitaries in the publishing and even gaming world.

To s1500, you say here:

Well, without telling me what the stance taken by the publishers about torrents, I'm still left in the dark on what is so bad about torrents. Torrents are just a medium to distribute the data. I fail to see how it is any different than a Rapidshare link that will eventually break for a # of reasons.

You did read my response where I mentioned that many people in positions of power over the releases being made here said "...almost universally a concern over torrents was voiced."  Right?

It's unfortunate that atariage, IMO did a better job of distributing a magazine set better without all the member/donation,etc  hoops to jump through.

This will be viewed as an attack on Retromags, no matter how I word it, but, you must be thinking of Retromags with this response.  We don't have "member/donation" requirements here to release or even download magazines (our e-mail addresses are readily available to anyone that wants to take the time to check a profile or two out and discuss releasing mags they own-in fact, Bablefish had a release here before he was a member, he joined because he likes it here, not because we require it).
The comment about how Atari Age did a better job at distributing a magazine and all, good for them.  We are not Atari Age.  As with any site, OoPA has rules that members need to be followed.  We have chosen to not allow torrent discussion here, plain and simple, this decision was fueled by comments by publishers and copyright owners, how is it not plain enough to understand?

I think it might be time for me to find a new hobby. Sites about classic video game magazines that shies away from getting the magazines out there? Then they are just over-modded forums.

s1500, you do own some quite rare and expensive to acquire issues, but that doesn't mean you can just walk in and change how things are done here on OoPA.  I know what issues you have (at least some of anyhow) since I edited them and released most of the Videogaming Illustrated issues you released on RM.  If you choose to leave magazine preservation then that is your choice but making unfounded accusations at us with the over-modded forums comment is not a nice way to leave (again, you must be thinking of RM or some other site as the forum is strictly here for anyone interested in discussing the topics, downloading magazines does not require a membership here).

The comment "Sites about classic video game magazines that shies away from getting the magazines out there?" is just unfounded and untrue in so many ways.  We are working very hard to release magazines in such a way that is not only respectful to the owners of the material but also in such a way that fans of such issues can get them.  Sure we could drop many magazines each day and flood the site with them but what is the point?  OoPA is not trying to be the end all be all, file repository for magazines on the net.  Nor are we for stepping on the toes of publishers by releasing issues that earned other sites C&D's, then bragging about it.  

The point is, s1500 or anyone else that feels that we are trying to hold back releases by not using torrents or by somehow "requiring member/donation,etc  hoops to jump through..." you have it wrong.  We are doing what we do because we love the magazines in question.  That is why we don't require membership to enjoy them (links to the forum are offered on the main site for convenience and not that many people use them, choosing to just enjoy the completely free, no strings attached magazines we have on offer).  We welcome anyone to come and voice their opinion on the situation (notice we aren't a pack of wolves attacking a member over their concerns).  

To make it clear for anyone that is still in the fog about torrents and OoPA- we don't allow them because it has been a concern of publishers/copyright holders.  If you are here for torrents of any kind, torrent discussion (as in where to get them and such) or just want to try and rock the boat, you might want to just go somewhere else, there are plenty of sites that cater to torrent fans, OoPA is not one of them.

Back on topic with Dante_Ali, I am sorry for not having responded yet, things have been busy around here.  I do promise, I will get you a reply soon.

[Dante_Ali]

Well said meppi.  I agree 100% with what you said.

Before I get on topic, I have an off topic comment or two to make.  While at Retromags, meppi and me instituted many rules (with FULL support of Phillyman, I might add) that were put in place to protect RM and take it out of the shadows and attempt to move it into a position of some respect and something worthy of being the #1 magazine preservation site on the web.  After over a year of being there and working to change the image that RM had, we were able to work with many dignitaries in the publishing and even gaming world.

To s1500, you say here:

Well, without telling me what the stance taken by the publishers about torrents, I'm still left in the dark on what is so bad about torrents. Torrents are just a medium to distribute the data. I fail to see how it is any different than a Rapidshare link that will eventually break for a # of reasons.

You did read my response where I mentioned that many people in positions of power over the releases being made here said "...almost universally a concern over torrents was voiced."  Right?

It's unfortunate that atariage, IMO did a better job of distributing a magazine set better without all the member/donation,etc  hoops to jump through.

This will be viewed as an attack on Retromags, no matter how I word it, but, you must be thinking of Retromags with this response.  We don't have "member/donation" requirements here to release or even download magazines (our e-mail addresses are readily available to anyone that wants to take the time to check a profile or two out and discuss releasing mags they own-in fact, Bablefish had a release here before he was a member, he joined because he likes it here, not because we require it).
The comment about how Atari Age did a better job at distributing a magazine and all, good for them.  We are not Atari Age.  As with any site, OoPA has rules that members need to be followed.  We have chosen to not allow torrent discussion here, plain and simple, this decision was fueled by comments by publishers and copyright owners, how is it not plain enough to understand?

I think it might be time for me to find a new hobby. Sites about classic video game magazines that shies away from getting the magazines out there? Then they are just over-modded forums.

s1500, you do own some quite rare and expensive to acquire issues, but that doesn't mean you can just walk in and change how things are done here on OoPA.  I know what issues you have (at least some of anyhow) since I edited them and released most of the Videogaming Illustrated issues you released on RM.  If you choose to leave magazine preservation then that is your choice but making unfounded accusations at us with the over-modded forums comment is not a nice way to leave (again, you must be thinking of RM or some other site as the forum is strictly here for anyone interested in discussing the topics, downloading magazines does not require a membership here).

The comment "Sites about classic video game magazines that shies away from getting the magazines out there?" is just unfounded and untrue in so many ways.  We are working very hard to release magazines in such a way that is not only respectful to the owners of the material but also in such a way that fans of such issues can get them.  Sure we could drop many magazines each day and flood the site with them but what is the point?  OoPA is not trying to be the end all be all, file repository for magazines on the net.  Nor are we for stepping on the toes of publishers by releasing issues that earned other sites C&D's, then bragging about it.  

The point is, s1500 or anyone else that feels that we are trying to hold back releases by not using torrents or by somehow "requiring member/donation,etc  hoops to jump through..." you have it wrong.  We are doing what we do because we love the magazines in question.  That is why we don't require membership to enjoy them (links to the forum are offered on the main site for convenience and not that many people use them, choosing to just enjoy the completely free, no strings attached magazines we have on offer).  We welcome anyone to come and voice their opinion on the situation (notice we aren't a pack of wolves attacking a member over their concerns).  

To make it clear for anyone that is still in the fog about torrents and OoPA- we don't allow them because it has been a concern of publishers/copyright holders.  If you are here for torrents of any kind, torrent discussion (as in where to get them and such) or just want to try and rock the boat, you might want to just go somewhere else, there are plenty of sites that cater to torrent fans, OoPA is not one of them.

Back on topic with Dante_Ali, I am sorry for not having responded yet, things have been busy around here.  I do promise, I will get you a reply soon.

Just to state this upfront in case there are any misunderstandings - and I might as well share this with the forum if for nothing else than being open and transparent: I'm not affiliated with Edge Magazine or Future Publishing in any way, shape or form - I just wanted to make that clear right from the get go in case I managed to create that pretense. That said, my motives in these are sincere - the only reason why I'm providing these scans at all is is quid pro quo on my part. Like I said earlier in that PM, I'm not going to be making any profit off the finished product - my intentions are to hand it over to Edge Magazine and they can do with it what they want after that - it's in their court after that. I have been doing this thing simply as a hobbyist pursuit - and it's not my intention to either burn Edge or Future Publishing in the process. It's not my intention here to be mr.bootlegger either and provide all these scans just for the mere sake of throwing it out there - though I wouldn't hesitate to donate the scans to Google Books or some other service that is in the business of cataloguing and scanning old magazines or books.

The reason why I want Next Generation in there is because for a long time, it was basically Edge's US sister magazine - and it would really complete the whole package having those issues in there as well. It's a lot less stoic than Edge and I don't consider it as good as Edge overall, but it's still a really great magazine - and they managed to cover a lot of games Edge didn't get around to (such as The Longest Journey, Phantasmagoria, and a lot of other games I can't name right now).

[meppi]

Don't worry about it, neither of us were thinking along those lines.
But it's always good to hear it being spoken in public as well since new members might jump to incorrect conclusions.

The reason we can't go with something like EDGE magazine at this time is due to several issues which certainly complicate matters.
One of them being that EDGE is still being published and on top of that it's the flagship of Future Publishing's video game magazine selection.
So this matter needs to be treated delicately and we won't risk souring any relationship we are trying to build with them by making choices which might seem to us as innocent and with the best of intentions, but that might at the same time be viewed by them as rude and perhaps arrogant.

So in this case we certainly won't be jumping ahead of ourselves and start releasing issues before we have full written consent from Future, no matter how much we'd like to lend a hand in preserving their classic magazines.

[Dante_Ali]

Don't worry about it, neither of us were thinking along those lines.
But it's always good to hear it being spoken in public as well since new members might jump to incorrect conclusions.

The reason we can't go with something like EDGE magazine at this time is due to several issues which certainly complicate matters.
One of them being that EDGE is still being published and on top of that it's the flagship of Future Publishing's video game magazine selection.
So this matter needs to be treated delicately and we won't risk souring any relationship we are trying to build with them by making choices which might seem to us as innocent and with the best of intentions, but that might at the same time be viewed by them as rude and perhaps arrogant.

So in this case we certainly won't be jumping ahead of ourselves and start releasing issues before we have full written consent from Future, no matter how much we'd like to lend a hand in preserving their classic magazines.

What about Next Generation? It's out of print - do you have issues of that? That was basically the initial premise of my post - to poll if people had any issues of this magazine - and in return I would give them Edge Magazine issues.

[triverse]

PM sent.

[meppi]

Just wanted to make a statement to clear up that he wasn't banned by any one of us, but apparently deleted his own account.